Predictions: Avengers vs. Batman 3
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2012 is set to be a clash of comic book titans as both the Avengers and Batman 3 will come out that summer. This has lead to many to wonder which film will perform better. One of my good friends wrote up a piece on his blog about why Batman 3 would be bigger than the Avengers (http://tinyurl.com/349gs7f) and while I respect his opinion, I am going to take a different stance.
While I am an unabashedly passionate Superman fan (and don’t really like Batman), I have to concede that Chris Nolan’s Batman films are among some of the best of the superhero genre. What he was able to with The Dark Knight was amazing although I found it to be too long.
However, as seen by countless 3rd films in trilogies (Spiderman 3, X-Men 3 *shudders*) the 3rd film is ALWAYS far weaker than the first two. People build up ridiculous expectations and filmmakers strive to top the previous films. Even the 3rd Lord of the Rings wasn’t as good as the first films. It basically won the Oscar for the trilogy of films and goodwill built up in the industry.
This is one of the factors that make me think Batman 3 won’t be bigger than the Avengers. The critical and box office love for that film was enormous and I have a strong suspicion that the film was the closest a superhero film will come to getting a Best Picture Oscar nod. And lets be real, how is anyone gonna top or equal Heath Ledger’s performance? That is going to be a large burden on the next villain to at least be as good if not better than the Joker. Another issue I foresee is the storyline. Nolan is striving to make his films less “superhero” and more “crime drama” which is very admirable. But I feel that when superhero films are focused on being true to themselves, they are better for it. Its what made Spiderman 2, X-Men 2, and going much further Superman with Christopher Reeves so great. When you strive to go beyond that, the ambition can be too great. The scene on the boats in The Dark Knight and the introduction of Two Face was a perfect example. They wanted to make this grand statement about the human condition when all it really did was add some suspense and extend an already long movie. I think that the Avengers will be better for the fact that we aren’t going to go into it thinking that it is a prestige pic/crime drama/Oscar bait. We know its gonna be about major superheroes getting together to fight evil.
Another plus for the Avengers is in the audience. While Batman fan boys are a passionate group, the Avengers has the advantage of bringing in several groups of stans. It is almost guaranteed that they will have a bigger audience than Batman 3. Even if one of the films leading up to The Avengers isn’t a smash hit, this is an ensemble film, meaning that one character will not make or break the film.Also they will have Joss Whedon behind the camera, and he is revered amongst fan boys having been the creative mind behind Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Dollhouse.
However where I think The Avengers has a bigger edge than Batman is in the cast. The Batman films have had fantastic casts (yes even Katie Holmes was better than people give her credit for). The problem is that Christian Bale and his villains (Cillian Murphy, Heath Ledger, Aaron Eckhart) are the only people who have anything real to do. Upon deciding to write this post, I realized how one note Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine (two Oscar winners!) can be because they are just there to give Bruce Wayne a speech or advice.
And look at the Avengers cast, I mean its ridiculous when you think of how starry it is. Think about this there is a:
Comic book film staple and popular actor – Sam Jackson
Captain Kirk’s father and fan boy favorite – Chris Hemsworth
Former superhero, comic book film staple, and beefcake – Chris Evans
Independent Spirit Award nominated (and possibly Oscar nominated this year) actor – Mark Ruffalo
TONY winner and 4 time Golden Globe nominated – Scarlett Johannson
and two OSCAR nominees – Robert Downey Jr and Jeremy Renner
I will take this cast’s potential over the proven Batman model (and Christian Bale’s fucking growling).
While I expect both films to be good, I am going to give Avengers the slight edge. But I can guarantee that ill be in attendance for both films.
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You can take this as a bad thing or a good thing, probably good…Thor and Captain America are opening in the same summer, two months within one another….people are probably going to make days out of seeing both movies. I hope Marvel's marketing department isn't slack because of this.I don't think you can knock Nolan for making an ambitious superhero film. The Batman film with similar sensibilities with Begins/TDK was Batman Returns (which, coincidentally was my favorite Batman movie before TDK), and that was because Tim Burton was allowed a HELL of a creative license. As long as Nolan stays away from that type of movie where it's all about the villain and not about Batman, we'll be ok.Speaking OF…the next movie IS going to be all about Batman because the issue of redemption is at hand. He's being chased by the police, and I'm sure there's another villain that will try and make things even harder for him. This is one pitfall I see for the third Batman – the announcement of who the "villain" is will determine the path of this movie, and if they shoehorn them in, it's gonna be a clusterfuck.Because of this, I don't think Penguin will/should be in it, because he's a mob boss, and regular organized crime went out in the beginning of TDK. Catwoman provides a female foil/partner/potential lover-on-the-run since Rachel died (which they have to treat very carefully – a retread of Returns just won't do), and the Riddler poses questions of "Is he too similar to the Joker?" I would guess he'd probably lay traps and puzzles to confuse the police AND Batman at the same time – still too much like the Joker. Catwoman for the win.I'll say this: If the Riddler is announced, my stance is null and void. I'll still go see it, but the battle will be lost.
I don't knock Nolan for trying to make an ambitious film but I felt mostly during that boat scene and Harvey Dent's death that he was going way off the page. Like when the Joker was killing ppl left and right and blowing up the hospital those were joker like things but putting ppl on a boat and having them decide if they would blow another one up? Idk about that.As far as villains go, Catwoman is the only one I could see working out cause Poison Ivy is too much like Scarecrow and Riddler like Joker. But is Catwoman REALLY a villain?That is the one issue Avengers will have. This villain is gonna have to be one BAD dude/chick to go up against everyone.
Catwoman can, at the very least, provide a challenge and a conflict – TDK showed how both Bruce Wayne AND Batman dealt with concurrent conflicts. As such, Catwoman doesn't necessarily need to BE a villain as much as she would/should serve as inspiration or a vessel for Batman to reclaim his mantle as Gotham's 'silent guardian'.Apparently, the "original" story of how the Avengers came together was that Loki began to control Hulk's mind, and everyone fought against him, beat the hypnosis/Loki, and then Hulk joined the team. Which, if that IS loosely what the script is going to be, is watchable. It's only the first film in the series.
By the way, I hope you noticed Robert Downey Jr.'s mild swipe at BATMAN director Chris Nolan's "Inception"….or was that just me that noticed that
Avengers v. Batman 3…I can't argue the point you made about the third time NEVER being the charm, but I have faith that Batman 3 will still hold up as a movie of note.Begins & TDK are a closer fit to the comic books to me. DC is "Detective Comics" after all. Most of the comics (Batman, Green Lantern, Green Arrow) have a "darker" feel to it while Marvel Comics (X-Men, Black Panther, Fantastic Four, Spiderman) have a lighter "air" to even the serious moments…As a reflection, Marvel movies are more action-based to fill in the gaps left by they're lighter plots whereas DC movies over emphasize love stories and random "grand statements" in attempt to draw away from the darker, sometimes boring, side of their plots.I feel like the comparison is Marvel v. DC and DC has a knack for making more meaningful movies, while Marvel makes more action-packed movies.
I don't know anything about the Avengers but I do know a little something about awards, fan appreciation, and Chris Nolan.The fact that myself and tons of other people saw The Dark Knight 2 or more (3 for me) times will guarantee a large presence at the box office.Also, although I appreciate Joss Whedon's work as much as the next tv nerd, the average superhero fan does not know or care who he is. Buffy & Dollhouse were not amazing shows…they had cult following but that was about it. And to say that the Oscar winning actors in The Dark Knight didn't do much also doesn't matter to the average superhero fan. They want blood and gore, gun fights and suspense, and the victory of a downtrodden hero. Who does that better than Chris Nolan?You also said the words 'Spiderman 2' and 'so great' in the same sentence and that is just not something I can co-sign. lolI think people will line the streets for Batman 3 simply based on the overwhelming hype for The Dark Knight and that alone is enough for me to say that it will out do whatever will be good about The Avengers.